Now they have taken to putting the payment method below the viewing window but keep the pay now button above it. They have caught me a couple times and stung my bank account this way. I prefer to pay with credit card but they always try to sneak the payment through my bank account in order to save themselves transaction fees.

I wonder how many of their customers(do they even know what that word means?) they have harmed by doing this. I can imagine how much grief and NSF charges they have caused people.

I hope they get sued in a class action one of these days for that

moneymarketing wrote on 17^th Jul, 2014 at 7:43am:

Now they have taken to putting the payment method below the viewing window but keep the pay now button above it. They have caught me a couple times and stung my bank account this way. I prefer to pay with credit card but they always try to sneak the payment through my bank account in order to save themselves transaction fees. I wonder how many of their customers(do they even know what that word means?) they have harmed by doing this. I can imagine how much grief and NSF charges they have caused people. I hope they get sued in a class action one of these days for that

Well, I've never connected my bank account to PayPal because I've never felt too safe with them.. so I only have my credit/debit cards as payment options and have never faced this issue you are talking about.. :-/

Calm down moneymarketing, focus on the positives.

I don't think I can make payments using the bank account. I must top it up first, and it takes around 3 days. Other than that, only balance or credit cards. So I've never faced that kind of problem. What I have faced is that I must empty my wallet of the currency I'm using in the purchase, otherwise they'll use the balance and not the credit card.

ruicarlov wrote on 17^th Jul, 2014 at 4:24pm:

What I have faced is that I must empty my wallet of the currency I'm using in the purchase, otherwise they'll use the balance and not the credit card.

But that is actually good, isn't it?
Why would you want to pay through a credit/debit card if you can simply use your PayPal balance?

In one word: cashback!

I use credit cards that give me back 1%-5% of the value of my purchases. Why buy online using euros in my balance, when I can use my Amex Blue card, and get 5% back?  ;)

dansbanners wrote on 17^th Jul, 2014 at 4:02pm:

Calm down moneymarketing, focus on the positives.

This is pretty important Dan. What paypal is doing could hurt people pretty bad if they make a mistake so people need to be extra cautious. So it is more a warning to everyone than trying to not be positive

I have sent payments of over $100 ( and a couple over $500) at times and if they were to send that to my bank instead of taking it from my credit card that could cause me problems with my bank. Especially if it kept on happening.

I want to use my CC as default payer for my PP account but they won't let me set that up. The obvious reason is because they want to avoid paying the fees. This creates hazards for us, so people be warned

Ok. Stay on course.

AHA! I CAUGHT THEM!

This time I MADE A POINT of selecting credit card because again this week they charged my bank account. So I double checked before I submitted my payment that I had selected credit card. When I checked the history at paypal THEY CHARGED MY BANK ACCOUNT AGAIN! >:( >:( >:(

Be very careful when dealing with these guys. They may be doing this to more folks that we realize. I am so mad I am going to see about getting my bank account removed from their site  >:(

I guess Americans and Canadians have it tough.

I guess using Payza is becoming more and more of an option, now that you can pay directly with credit card, too, at no extra cost.

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 12:22am:

AHA! I CAUGHT THEM! This time I MADE A POINT of selecting credit card because again this week they charged my bank account. So I double checked before I submitted my payment that I had selected credit card. When I checked the history at paypal THEY CHARGED MY BANK ACCOUNT AGAIN! >:( >:( >:( Be very careful when dealing with these guys. They may be doing this to more folks that we realize. I am so mad I am going to see about getting my bank account removed from their site  >:(

It's probably a misunderstanding cause I'm having no trouble with them. Me thinks you may be letting your emotions get the best of you. There were times in the past when you got mad at a program or program owner only to eventually realize it was a misunderstanding or even your own doing. For some reason, you're a little quick to think someone, a program or a site is "out to get you". And if it wasn't for my voice of reason or my helping to balance things out, you wouldn't have gotten this far in internet marketing to begin with. So you may want to analyze things again and really make sure there isn't a misunderstanding somewhere. My gut feeling is there's probably is whereas I was usually right in the past although I could be wrong this time but I doubt it. IMHO.

P.S. Why don't you just simply ask them about it?

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 2:45pm:

It's probably a misunderstanding cause I'm having no trouble with them. Me thinks you may be letting your emotions get the best of you. There were times in the past when you got mad at a program or program owner only to eventually realize it was a misunderstanding or even your own doing. For some reason, you're a little quick to think someone, a program or a site is "out to get you". And if it wasn't for my voice of reason or my helping to balance things out, you wouldn't have gotten this far in internet marketing to begin with. So you may want to analyze things again and really make sure there isn't a misunderstanding somewhere. My gut feeling is there's probably is whereas I was usually right in the past although I could be wrong this time but I doubt it. IMHO. P.S. Why don't you just simply ask them about it?

No, it's not a misunderstanding Dan. They ripped me on Tuesday and since it has happened before I just naturally blamed myself even though I was positive I selected the right option. So when I tried to make the purchase again on Thursday, not wanting my bank account to go that deep into overdraft, I made the point of making sure credit card was selected.

I hit send on the payment and when I checked it in paypal , they had charged my bank again.

And I have said something to them. I've filed two disputes and told them I don't want the money back, I want them to charge it to my CC.

I'm also going to make sure they never do it again because once this issue is cleared up my banking connection with them is GONE. It will be CC or online earnings only. THEY CAN NOT BE TRUSTED!

And please don't insult me about being the reason I'm still online Had we not met up I still would be a member of MFS to this day which is the real reason I am still marketing online. I haven't quit them nor would I have in the past. You certainly have helped me to enhance my earnings but I would have survived anyway

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 6:26pm:

And I have said something to them. I've filed two disputes and told them I don't want the money back, I want them to charge it to my CC.

I still think you're not taking responsibility for your actions. Even the GOB's used to tell you that, "take responsbility".

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 6:26pm:

And please don't insult me about being the reason I'm still online Had we not met up I still would be a member of MFS to this day which is the real reason I am still marketing online. I haven't quit them nor would I have in the past. You certainly have helped me to enhance my earnings but I would have survived anyway

Not to take anything away from your net marketing accomplishments and you've certainly been a big help to the team, the point is that there were times you were letting your emotions get the best of you to the point you almost made it look like you wanted to quit if it wasn't for my gauding you, adding a voice of reason and helping things to calm down whereas you eventually did proceed with internet marketing. For instance, if my memory serves me right didn't you originally have a negative opinion on Clixsense? ;)

I also recall a time whereas you went through a phase whereas you practically thought that every single program were "skimming" or "out to get you", etc, including Clixsense.

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 6:26pm:

No, it's not a misunderstanding Dan. They ripped me on Tuesday and since it has happened before I just naturally blamed myself even though I was positive I selected the right option. So when I tried to make the purchase again on Thursday, not wanting my bank account to go that deep into overdraft, I made the point of making sure credit card was selected. I hit send on the payment and when I checked it in paypal , they had charged my bank again. And I have said something to them. I've filed two disputes and told them I don't want the money back, I want them to charge it to my CC. I'm also going to make sure they never do it again because once this issue is cleared up my banking connection with them is GONE. It will be CC or online earnings only. THEY CAN NOT BE TRUSTED!

Without naming names, I'm going to ask paypal some questions and see what they say.

SolidSnake wrote on 17^th Jul, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Well, I've never connected my bank account to PayPal because I've never felt too safe with them.. so I only have my credit/debit cards as payment options and have never faced this issue you are talking about.. :-/

See that moneymarketing, how come SS is not having the issues you're having?

ruicarlov wrote on 17^th Jul, 2014 at 4:24pm:

I don't think I can make payments using the bank account. I must top it up first, and it takes around 3 days. Other than that, only balance or credit cards. So I've never faced that kind of problem. What I have faced is that I must empty my wallet of the currency I'm using in the purchase, otherwise they'll use the balance and not the credit card.

See that moneymarketing, rui is another that's not having the issues you're having.

moneymarketing, can you specifically mention the program you're having this trouble with whereas you've tried charging your credit card with a payment so maybe I could look into it myself. Thanks.

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 9:35pm:

See that moneymarketing, how come SS is not having the issues you're having?

BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE HIS BANK CONNECTED?

I think it would be pretty difficult for Paypal to dig into his bank IF IT IS NOT EVEN CONNECTED! Although at this point I wouldn't put anything past them

C'mon Dan, give me a break!  At least argue honestly

You do know that they save money and cannot get chargebacks if they take from your bank account right? So it is in their best interests to try to take from our banks. That is why, even though the credit card is my preferred way of paying, that is what I've selected with them, they always have the payment default set on bank. Why is that when that is not what I have selected? Is it possibly because they are trying to get me to make a mistake so that they don't have to deal with credit cards? Yes, that IS why.

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 9:36pm:

See that moneymarketing, rui is another that's not having the issues you're having.

So because the banking works different in his country that automatically means that what happened to me is impossible?

Are you serious?  :dontknow

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 9:38pm:

moneymarketing, can you specifically mention the program you're having this trouble with whereas you've tried charging your credit card with a payment so maybe I could look into it myself. Thanks.

It has happened in a few programs but how is it do you expect to look into this exactly? Paypal can't give you my info and the program owner better not

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 7:07pm:

Without naming names, I'm going to ask paypal some questions and see what they say.

What are you going to ask them about my private information? They do millions of transactions per day. They only way you would be able to get info on a specific case like that is if you are snooping in my private information. And why would you expect Paypal to tell you the truth if they were doing this?

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 6:59pm:

I still think you're not taking responsibility for your actions. Even the GOB's used to tell you that, "take responsbility".

Wow, you are really on a tear today aren't you? Are these the same GOB's that you refuse to do business with because they exploit people?

Yes they are

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 7:04pm:

Not to take anything away from your net marketing accomplishments and you've certainly been a big help to the team, the point is that there were times you were letting your emotions get the best of you to the point you almost made it look like you wanted to quit if it wasn't for my gauding you, adding a voice of reason and helping things to calm down whereas you eventually did proceed with internet marketing. For instance, if my memory serves me right didn't you originally have a negative opinion on Clixsense? ;) I also recall a time whereas you went through a phase whereas you practically thought that every single program were "skimming" or "out to get you", etc, including Clixsense.

So 90% of the programs out there aren't crashing and burning and absconding with our money then? How's the cash flow in YGP lately? How is your PTCBox investment doing? Well, at least you made a profit in that huh? Not like the rest of us.

We could agree to disagree, it ain't worth my time. I still think you at times get blindsided by emotions to the point that you sometime don't even see it yourself. I'm tempted to think along the lines of "I could care less on a personal basis" as to that this has been a buildup for some time. My main concern is that it doesn't affect the team and that's not asking for much is it and we'll proceed from here...

Like I said before it's one thing for your negativity to be justified but another if some of it is from your own doing (i.e. funny thing is that at other times, you sometime seem to do the opposite that there were times when you thought positively but shouldn't have, PTS is a perfect example....)

Anyway, I said my piece and hope for the best with the X-PTCBox team, moving on...

moneymarketing,

And as long you're able to use other processors to make up for it, then that should be okay and hopefully that'll be the case. Good luck!

dansbanners wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 11:12pm:

moneymarketing, And as long you're able to use other processors to make up for it, then that should be okay and hopefully that'll be the case. Good luck!

It will cease being a problem when I get my bank account deleted from their site.

It's true, I've never added my bank account to PayPal (thankfully I never had to), so I can't help much there..
Wow.. that was a bit intense.. but anyways everyone has a point, so let's just leave it there..


moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 1:03am:

It will cease being a problem when I get my bank account deleted from their site.

Well, have you tried removing your bank account from PayPal?
I'm a bit curious to see how it will go. :)

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 1:03am:

It will cease being a problem when I get my bank account deleted from their site.

Ok, hope you know what you're doing.

SolidSnake wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 2:05am:

It's true, I've never added my bank account to PayPal (thankfully I never had to), so I can't help much there.. Wow.. that was a bit intense.. but anyways everyone has a point, so let's just leave it there.. Well, have you tried removing your bank account from PayPal? I'm a bit curious to see how it will go. :)

I tried to do it when this whole mess started but they wouldn't let me because a payment was still pending. Once that all clear up I will try it again and it should work. I don't know what that will do to my account status

and about the referral skimming SS. Maybe you can help clear this up since you know programming. Would it be possible for a site to divert referrals from your affiliate link? For example, say I had 100 referrals coming in to my link, could a PO set something up whereby only 50 were credited to my account and 50 went to the PO himself?

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 7:31am:

I tried to do it when this whole mess started but they wouldn't let me because a payment was still pending. Once that all clear up I will try it again and it should work. I don't know what that will do to my account status

It might raise some suspicion but I don't think it should be much of a big deal.. Usually they mostly care about withdrawing remarkably large amounts at a higher speed rate than usual..


Quote:

and about the referral skimming SS. Maybe you can help clear this up since you know programming. Would it be possible for a site to divert referrals from your affiliate link? For example, say I had 100 referrals coming in to my link, could a PO set something up whereby only 50 were credited to my account and 50 went to the PO himself?

I think it's obvious that it is quite easy to implement that.. I think it would take me like 5 minutes.. :)
I could also do it based on a controllable "random" scale so that it wouldn't even raise suspicion..

Either way it's not sth one can actually check... unless you refer specific people and they confirm that they've used your referral link and end up in someone else's downline.. that could be a complication for them but they can always "fix" it by assigning them to you.

Are you talking about the PayPal referring system here, or is that a generic question?

[edit]Well, I couldn't stop myself so here you go  :D :

http://www.ptcbox.me/refer_test.php?referrer=moneymarketing
This is a referral link, notice how your username parameter is entered as a "referrer" parameter that the code will process.
You can change it manually in the address bar of your browser..

If no username is inserted then it will simply show "unreferred". Test it out by refreshing the page and you'll see what I mean.[/edit]

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 7:31am:

and about the referral skimming SS. Maybe you can help clear this up since you know programming. Would it be possible for a site to divert referrals from your affiliate link? For example, say I had 100 referrals coming in to my link, could a PO set something up whereby only 50 were credited to my account and 50 went to the PO himself?

Why you're even making an issue of it at this point? Focus on the positives, growth and team. ;)

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 7:31am:

and about the referral skimming SS. Maybe you can help clear this up since you know programming. Would it be possible for a site to divert referrals from your affiliate link? For example, say I had 100 referrals coming in to my link, could a PO set something up whereby only 50 were credited to my account and 50 went to the PO himself?

That you're still talking about it kinda reinforces my point about "how your mind works". However, I'm still willing to give you the benefit of a doubt, partly for the sake of the team, that your opinion of paypal is 100% justified and that they're just doing this to you particularly on purpose and not to many other paypal users and that there's also a 0 % chance of misunderstanding somewhere, etc... ::)

Like I said before, as long you're able to make up for it with other processors and that it doesn't affect the team, let's move on...

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 10:12pm:

Wow, you are really on a tear today aren't you? Are these the same GOB's that you refuse to do business with because they exploit people? Yes they are

They didn't exploit us. We took responsibility in joining their programs and learned from experience not to do it again.

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 10:12pm:

Wow, you are really on a tear today aren't you? Are these the same GOB's that you refuse to do business with because they exploit people? Yes they are

Part of the point, is that I recall their telling you to take responsibility for a mistake that you made. It's easier to change yourself than it is to try to change others. If you keep absolving yourself from any responsibility and keep blaming others, you'll prevent yourself from growing.

I really don't see the point of arguing over something that we can't officially prove..
PayPal could be 100% legit or even 100% scam.. we can't really know.

Either way we are kinda stuck with using it, since it's still #1 Payment processor all over the world.
We all have our own opinions on PayPal, and each one can decide how he's gonna use it.

If MM is facing problems with them, even if he's the only one in this case, of course he has to figure out how to "deal" with it and removing his bank account could be helpful for his own case.

For the rest of us that have no involvement it's good to have the knowledge of this event, even though it doesn't really affect our own transactions.

What I mean is, let's let MM do what he feels is right for his own co-operation with PayPal.
It's a good thing that he shares that info with us.

Even if we disagree with his actions, it's not really our business, plus it's not on us to judge if they're right or wrong..
However it's good to read any updates of the case for our own information and knowledge expanding.. and all.

moneymarketing wrote on 18^th Sep, 2014 at 10:12pm:

Wow, you are really on a tear today aren't you? Are these the same GOB's that you refuse to do business with because they exploit people? Yes they are

Just cause we felt we didn't get the value for the money mean they exploited us. They had a business to run. Don't forget the traffic industry was also new at the time and all.

SolidSnake wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 3:19pm:

Either way we are kinda stuck with using it, since it's still #1 Payment processor all over the world.

Yes. That's why I feel it's best we deal with them. However if mm feels he can make up for it with other processors then good luck to him!

SolidSnake wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 3:19pm:

I really don't see the point of arguing over something that we can't officially prove.. PayPal could be 100% legit or even 100% scam.. we can't really know.

Some of it is not so much about arguing about paypal, paypal just happens to be the most current or recent example, but also that I'm just trying to get mm to see his ways, it's been going on for some time.

But I guess there comes a point whereas I'd just have to follow my own advice "it's easier to change yourself than to try to change others" and let things go and hope for the best...

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 2:54pm:

They didn't exploit us. We took responsibility in joining their programs and learned from experience not to do it again.

didn't exploit us? These were the same guys that gave us nerdbux(and all the new launches from that platform) in case anyone is curious

SolidSnake wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 11:31am:

It might raise some suspicion but I don't think it should be much of a big deal.. Usually they mostly care about withdrawing remarkably large amounts at a higher speed rate than usual.. I think it's obvious that it is quite easy to implement that.. I think it would take me like 5 minutes.. :) I could also do it based on a controllable "random" scale so that it wouldn't even raise suspicion.. Either way it's not sth one can actually check... unless you refer specific people and they confirm that they've used your referral link and end up in someone else's downline.. that could be a complication for them but they can always "fix" it by assigning them to you. Are you talking about the PayPal referring system here, or is that a generic question? [edit]Well, I couldn't stop myself so here you go  :D : http://www.ptcbox.me/refer_test.php?referrer=moneymarketing This is a referral link, notice how your username parameter is entered as a "referrer" parameter that the code will process. You can change it manually in the address bar of your browser.. If no username is inserted then it will simply show "unreferred". Test it out by refreshing the page and you'll see what I mean.[/edit]

Thanks for that because we weren't sure on the point. Now that that is cleared up I'll give you an example of how I was being 'paranoid'.

There was a site we were both in. It was a great site and had it run as was promised would have been very lucrative. I started promoting it. I was getting one paid referral per about 5000 hits. This was consistent over many ad campaigns.

That was all going fine and then I got to the payout threshold and the point where I was able to earn an income from the site. On the very next campaign from the same site my referring stats went from 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 50,000!. After that, it was also impossible for us to get a payout even though he was making a net profit on every position of ours.

So what am I supposed to think?

Dan calls me paranoid. I call it skimming and fudging with the numbers. This also had happened in many sites over the years at that point. The minute you reached threshold the site or your referral rate evaporated. It was the referralbot of that time but of course I had no way to prove it

Gee, I wonder why I'm so negative on this industry?

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 2:57pm:

Part of the point, is that I recall their telling you to take responsibility for a mistake that you made. It's easier to change yourself than it is to try to change others. If you keep absolving yourself from any responsibility and keep blaming others, you'll prevent yourself from growing.

Yes, I remember that well Dan. They were saying that if I wasn't willing to invest 10k with them and take responsibility for my marketing I would get no where. At least I still have my 10K

anybody willing to invest cash with the former owners of nerdbux

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 2:26pm:

Why you're even making an issue of it at this point? Focus on the positives, growth and team. ;)

We disputed the point way back then and never had the issue resolved. Now we know that it is possible.

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 2:38pm:

That you're still talking about it kinda reinforces my point about "how your mind works". However, I'm still willing to give you the benefit of a doubt, partly for the sake of the team, that your opinion of paypal is 100% justified and that they're just doing this to you particularly on purpose and not to many other paypal users and that there's also a 0 % chance of misunderstanding somewhere, etc... ::) Like I said before, as long you're able to make up for it with other processors and that it doesn't affect the team, let's move on...

You aren't even listening. I never said I was going to stop using them. I said I was going to do everything in my power to block their access to my bank account. Maybe then they will honor my customer request to let me pay how I want to pay.

I also did not say I was 100% right. I did acknowledge my mistakes but in this example I made absolutely sure that I selected the right option because it just happened earlier in the week. I know my memory is not what it used to be but it is not that bad yet

As for doing this to me personally? Maybe you don't understand how paypal works and how it treats some customers. It is legendary. 59,000 people on facebook like this site. Maybe you should read some horror stories from some really disgruntled customers

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 4:18pm:

Some of it is not so much about arguing about paypal, paypal just happens to be the most current or recent example, but also that I'm just trying to get mm to see his ways, it's been going on for some time. But I guess there comes a point whereas I'd just have to follow my own advice "it's easier to change yourself than to try to change others" and let things go and hope for the best...

'cept that 90% of the programs crash and burn. So I'm only right 90% of the time? I can live with that  ;D

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 6:03pm:

Thanks for that because we weren't sure on the point. Now that that is cleared up I'll give you an example of how I was being 'paranoid'. There was a site we were both in. It was a great site and had it run as was promised would have been very lucrative. I started promoting it. I was getting one paid referral per about 5000 hits. This was consistent over many ad campaigns.

Which site was that btw? I might have been in that as well..


Quote:

That was all going fine and then I got to the payout threshold and the point where I was able to earn an income from the site. On the very next campaign from the same site my referring stats went from 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 50,000!. After that, it was also impossible for us to get a payout even though he was making a net profit on every position of ours. So what am I supposed to think? Dan calls me paranoid. I call it skimming and fudging with the numbers. This also had happened in many sites over the years at that point. The minute you reached threshold the site or your referral rate evaporated. It was the referralbot of that time but of course I had no way to prove it

Well, just like you say there's no way to prove such stuff.. it comes up to how much you trust someone will do it or not..

However, speaking of numbers, if in the beginning it was 1 in 5000 and later on it went to 1 in 50000 it's also not impossible to be a coincidence..
When a program has a small membership database with less than 100 active promoters it might work that well..
But if it becomes popular and it reaches a point of 1000+ active promoters it's kinda normal to drop 1/10 in conversions as the competition rises 10x times as well.. That's why we usually say that it's good to get in early..

I can't say for sure about the program you're talking about, but that's a possibility.

As for bots, it's an unfortunate event they got introduced in this industry.
What I personally think about it is that Neobux was the first to implement them along with the renting system + masked usernames (for the members' security..). If you think about it was the perfect plan..

Members were already too excited about it, especially members that didn't know how to promote or how to maintain a downline.
Masked usernames made it difficult to keep track, and everyone started getting dozens of them daily. I also believe that he made "good use" of bots by implementing variation techniques (it's another 5 minute coding job) to make their activity indistinguishable from how an actual clicker would work like. After some time working with them they would probably not be needed any longer as real members would be enough to replace them.

Still, the neobux script was custom since the beginning so there's no actual way to know what is happening there, and of course I might be paranoid as well..  It's understandable as I have no proof.

Quote:

Gee, I wonder why I'm so negative on this industry?

As for this unfortunately it has been going like this since like ever so it's not that weird.
There are much less legit people in the world than scammers, especially in this fragile industry.

However, all I can say is what you have told me a couple of years ago.. :
"We are both fighters in this world, so hang in there buddy!" :)

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 6:31pm:

'cept that 90% of the programs crash and burn. So I'm only right 90% of the time? I can live with that  ;D

sometime it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, the more you perceive yourself that way, the more it's likely to happen

SolidSnake wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 7:25pm:

Which site was that btw? I might have been in that as well..

Advertise to earn team



Quote:

Well, just like you say there's no way to prove such stuff.. it comes up to how much you trust someone will do it or not.. However, speaking of numbers, if in the beginning it was 1 in 5000 and later on it went to 1 in 50000 it's also not impossible to be a coincidence.. When a program has a small membership database with less than 100 active promoters it might work that well.. But if it becomes popular and it reaches a point of 1000+ active promoters it's kinda normal to drop 1/10 in conversions as the competition rises 10x times as well.. That's why we usually say that it's good to get in early.. I can't say for sure about the program you're talking about, but that's a possibility..

The more important factor is the feeder program. If you have a large pool of potential referrals that are being increased each day, they can keep the site growing. A good example is clixsense and neobux. I can still put an ad on NB for CS and expect a certain number of referrals. It is not cost effective but it is entirely predictable and the bigger the feeder site, the more consistent the results. This site had around 10K members (and Dan and I were referring most of them) so, if what you say is true, then CS would have ceased taking in members a long time ago. The feeder market is very important (then there is the old 'more people are turning 18' analogy  :))

That said, I was advertising it in some pretty consistent sites for getting referrals. I think it was MFS, donkey mails and CS. Those programs are no slouches when it comes to referring member even today.

Even if it did drop off, it would not drop off that fast. In all my years of advertising I have never seen stats fall off a cliff like that. It is either very little or a steady stream (assuming the feeder is healthy and growing). And it wasn't like it was being advertised everywhere. With Paidverts for example, you see it everywhere. So it is reasonable to assume that results will get worse. Even so, I'm averaging about 1 referral per day from the sites I use for advertising and PV has added over 60,000 members since then

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 9:20pm:

sometime it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, the more you perceive yourself that way, the more it's likely to happen

I knew it was my fault!  :dontknow

That sounds more like philosophy than truth and it doesn't line up with my experience

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 5:53pm:

didn't exploit us? These were the same guys that gave us nerdbux(and all the new launches from that platform) in case anyone is curious

and did I join...?

No, cause I took responsibility and learned from my experience or mistakes.

And rather than looking at it from a "THEY'RE OUT TO GET ME!" perspective, I simply looked at it from a professional, methodical point of view and didn't join their program

Besides didn't I also warn or constructively advise you guys to perhaps maybe also not to join too many bux programs?

Then according to your logic, PTS has also exploited you. Yet you keep insisting on having a positive opinion of the program. It's how you put a spin on it.

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 9:22pm:

I knew it was my fault!  :dontknow That sounds more like philosophy than truth and it doesn't line up with my experience

Then how do you account that there has been some marketers right under your nose, that has as constructively put has had better success than you do up to this point? Do you think perhaps maybe the "way they thought" could have had something to do with it? Or is it just all 100% luck?

We're wasting time. We're going around in circles, maybe it's best to lock this topic and move on. And I apologize for adding to it and all.

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 9:30pm:

Then how do you account that there has been some marketers right under your nose, that has as constructively put has had better success than you do up to this point? Do you think perhaps maybe the "way they thought" could have had something to do with it? Or is it just all 100% luck?

Maybe they're better marketers Dan. It is not just about throwing money at something and thinking happy thoughts. Just because it works for one person doesn't mean it will work for all or we'd all be marketers obviously. Some people have the ability to connect with people. Others don't and no amount of happy thoughts are going to change that

Do you honestly think if we all sit in a circle and chant kumbaya that the world will beat a path to our door and give us gold?

If it makes you feel better crowing about your superiority in the marketing arena then go ahead. I hear that kind of garbage all the time but I certainly don't respect the crow. This life isn't about competing and winning. We're all dead at the end and then what do you have? Trophies?

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 9:34pm:

We're wasting time. We're going around in circles, maybe it's best to lock this topic and move on. And I apologize for adding to it and all.

why such a control freak? You don't have to reply. So if you don't like the debate then you start censoring people? That sounds like a winning attitude. And this is the problem I have with that stuff. You have people who might be successful in one area of their life and they think they are king of the world and everyone has to bow to them?

Do you give to charity Dan? I'm just curious

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 10:32pm:

Do you give to charity Dan? I'm just curious

Actually I do and that's part of my motivation, so I could give more.

moneymarketing wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 10:32pm:

why such a control freak? You don't have to reply. So if you don't like the debate then you start censoring people?

I just thought it would be best for the team to move on cause we're not accomplishing anything here. Let's just pick up where we left off and move on. That's all.

SolidSnake wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 7:25pm:

Which site was that btw? I might have been in that as well.. Well, just like you say there's no way to prove such stuff.. it comes up to how much you trust someone will do it or not.. However, speaking of numbers, if in the beginning it was 1 in 5000 and later on it went to 1 in 50000 it's also not impossible to be a coincidence.. When a program has a small membership database with less than 100 active promoters it might work that well.. But if it becomes popular and it reaches a point of 1000+ active promoters it's kinda normal to drop 1/10 in conversions as the competition rises 10x times as well.. That's why we usually say that it's good to get in early..

Some of it could simply be ad saturation. For instance, if you were to purchase an ad for 1,000 clicks and got about 10 or 15 referrals from it.

And then purchased the same ad shortly afterwards in the same program, also for 1,000 clicks but only got 2 to 3 referrals the second time.

Doesn't necessarily mean you were "skimmed". It could simply be that the novelty of the new ad or even program had worn off. Or that it's some of the very same clickers that had joined the first time, also clicked on the ad the second time.

dansbanners wrote on 19^th Sep, 2014 at 11:25pm:

Some of it could simply be ad saturation. For instance, if you were to purchase an ad for 1,000 clicks and got about 10 or 15 referrals from it. And then purchased the same ad shortly afterwards in the same program, also for 1,000 clicks but only got 2 to 3 referrals the second time. Doesn't necessarily mean you were "skimmed". It could simply be that the novelty of the new ad or even program had worn off. Or that it's some of the very same clickers that had joined the first time, also clicked on the ad the second time.

except that, at the same time, I started having problems getting him to pay out. He stopped answering my emails which you refused to believe and said there must have been a mistake somewhere. He was still answering yours and you got him to pay me (being my upline and all). This led you to accuse me of thinking he was 'out to get me'......and then he started doing the same thing to you, not paying and not answering emails

So you keep saying that I'm thinking that people are out to get 'me' when that is a total falsehood. When I bring these thing up it is because the PO has changed their behavior and treating one person badly does not affect his program. I say this because it is a sign that something has changed internally and most of the time I am right because the program quickly goes downhill from there (obviously because he is treating many people that way). What I have discovered about my life is that I am a great test of people's character. How they treat me is usually a sign of what is going on inside their heads. Yes, I can be abrasive and yes, I have made many mistakes, but usually I am fair when dealing with people and I usually give them more than they deserve or would give back to me based on my philosophy

I guess weasels sense that and thus start on me right away

Ok, guys, past is past, it makes no sense letting such things get us down now.
We've been together for a bunch of years and we all know each other's weak spots but also strong spots as well.
We are a team so we'd better focus on the strong points of each other.

I love Dan's sixth sense that detects scams and his advice that most of the times sounds like my conscience's voice,
I also love MM's constant support and generosity, without him I couldn't have achieved a lot of things here,
and of course I also love Rui's and Venkat's team spirit and sense of humor.. they always tend to make my day.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

And yep, I sometimes hate myself for being too spontaneous, emotional and terribly stubborn..  >:( :beatup
But please bear with me on that one.. you probably know one or two things I can be good at..

So, let's not allow such stuff get between us..

If you know something tends to cause a burnout in someone else's head please avoid it..
And also if you get that burnout from something someone else said please avoid exploding..

So.. with these said I'll just lock this thread for now and MM can reopen it once he has an update on the PayPal matter.
Sorry, and we'd better focus on other topics that could use more attention maybe..  [smiley=sorry.gif]

(If someone would like to reply to me on this please use a PM)

Final Update:

They are claiming they have no evidence to prove what I said was true

no surprise there ::)

Quote:

Final Update: They are claiming they have no evidence to prove what I said was true no surprise there  ::)

So, are you able to remove your bank account from PayPal..?

SolidSnake wrote on 24^th Sep, 2014 at 12:07am:

So, are you able to remove your bank account from PayPal..?

not yet. They haven't notified the PO yet so the status is still technically pending. I had two claims for the same reason and they might have only cleared one but because they are both for the same thing I expect the same on the second answer....unless of course a completely different account person reviews it....then I might get a different answer. This is paypal after all  ;D

moneymarketing wrote on 24^th Sep, 2014 at 12:21am:

not yet. They haven't notified the PO yet so the status is still technically pending. I had two claims for the same reason and they might have only cleared one but because they are both for the same thing I expect the same on the second answer....unless of course a completely different account person reviews it....then I might get a different answer. This is paypal after all  ;D

Bank account removed. Now I'll wait and see if there are any repercussions. There shouldn't be. Things should get better for the account as I won't be making those 'mistakes' any more.

I think I'll build up a bit of a balance too. Maybe a couple hundred dollars